hstry

Socrates on why he stays in the city

c. 420–410 BCE, Outside the walls of Athens, by the Ilissus. As Plato tells it.

Where and when

c. 420–410 BCEOutside the walls of Athens, by the Ilissus

about 2,440 years ago

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Socrates

, Outside the walls of Athens, by the IlissusAs Plato tells it

In plain words, ours

Sorry, I love learning. Trees and fields don't teach me anything. People in the city do.

Forgive me, my dear friend. You see, I am fond of learning. Now the country places and the trees won’t teach me anything, and the people in the city do.

Plato, Phaedrus 230dTranslated by Harold North Fowler (1914)Read the full passage (Plato, Phaedrus 230d, opens scaife.perseus.org)

What was going on, our summary

As Plato tells it, Phaedrus has led Socrates outside the walls of Athens to a grassy spot by the Ilissus, full of cicadas. Phaedrus teases him for acting like a stranger who never leaves the city, and wants to read him a speech from a book.

Checked claim by claim against: the passage around the quote.

Why it matters

The Phaedrus is Plato's only dialogue that shows Socrates outside the city of Athens, out in the country.

Based on Wikipedia: Phaedrus (dialogue)

Phaedrus is Plato's only dialogue that shows Socrates outside the city of Athens, out in the country.

Wikipedia, Phaedrus (dialogue) (opens en.wikipedia.org), as of 2026-08-13. Text CC BY-SA 4.0. Our line is checked against these sentences only.

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  9. 415 BCE0.10000000000002274 years earlier Statues of Hermes are smashed across Athens Also in Athens
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  11. c. 420–410 BCEThis momentSocrates on why he stays in the city
  12. c. 431–400 BCEDuring it Thucydides on how he wrote the speeches Same years
  13. 413 BCEabout 2 years later The Athenian army is destroyed in Sicily Same years

Just before and after

The text around the quote, word for word from the same translation.

Show the passageHide the passage

And it seems to be a sacred place of some nymphs and of Achelous, judging by the figurines and statues. Then again, if you please, how lovely and perfectly charming the breeziness of the place is! and it resounds with the shrill summer music of the chorus of cicadas. But the most delightful thing of all is the grass, as it grows on the gentle slope, thick enough to be just right when you lay your head on it. So you have guided the stranger most excellently, dear Phaedrus. Phaedrus. You are an amazing and most remarkable person. For you really do seem exactly like a stranger who is being guided about, and not like a native. You don’t go away from the city out over the border, and it seems to me you don’t go outside the walls at all. Socrates.

The quote: Forgive me, my dear friend. You see, I am fond of learning. Now the country places and the trees won’t teach me anything, and the people in the city do.

But you seem to have found the charm to bring me out. For as people lead hungry animals by shaking in front of them a branch of leaves or some fruit, just so, I think, you, by holding before me discourses in books, will lead me all over Attica and wherever else you please. So now that I have come here, I intend to lie down, and do you choose the position in which you think you can read most easily, and read. Phaedrus. Hear then. Phaedrus. You know what my condition is, and you have heard how I think it is to our advantage to arrange these matters.

Plato, Phaedrus 230b–231Translated by Harold North Fowler (1914)Read the full passage (opens scaife.perseus.org)

When, and whose words

Date
c. 420–410 BCE. Scholars set the dramatic date in Socrates' middle years, often around 418–416 BCE; the dialogue gives no year.
Whose words
As Plato tells it.
How this post was checked
  • The plain-words line was read against the quote alone by a second, independent pass, which found it adds no claim the quote does not make (2026-10-03).
  • Each claim in the summary was checked by an independent pass against only the material it cites.
  • The quote itself is checked by the build: word for word, once, at the cited section of the stored translation.

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