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Socrates answers Meno on numbness

c. 402 BCE, Athens. As Plato tells it.

Where and when

c. 402 BCEAthens

about 2,427 years ago

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In plain words, ours

If that numbing fish is numb itself, then I'm like it. I don't confuse people because I'm sure. I confuse them because I'm the most unsure of all.

As for me, if the torpedo is torpid itself while causing others to be torpid, I am like it, but not otherwise. For it is not from any sureness in myself that I cause others to doubt: it is from being in more doubt than anyone else that I cause doubt in others.

Plato, Meno 80c–dTranslated by W. R. M. Lamb (1924)Read the full passage (Plato, Meno 80c–d, opens scaife.perseus.org)

What was going on, our summary

As Plato tells it, Meno has just complained that talking with Socrates leaves his mind and tongue numb, so he can no longer say what virtue is, and has made a teasing comparison. Socrates answers, then offers to keep searching for what virtue is together.

Checked claim by claim against: the passage around the quote.

Related moments

In time order, with this one in its place. Each says why it is here.

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  3. 405 BCEabout 3 years earlier The Athenian fleet is lost at Aegospotami Same years
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  6. 403 BCE1 year earlier Democracy returns to Athens, with an amnesty Also in Athens
  7. c. 402 BCEThis momentSocrates answers Meno on numbness
  8. 401 BCE1 year later The Chorus on not being born Also in Athens
  9. 401 BCE1 year later Oedipus tells Theseus that time overpowers all Also in Athens
  10. 399 BCEabout 3 years later Socrates is tried, condemned and put to death Same years
  11. set in 399 BCEabout 3 years later Socrates and the oracle at Delphi More from Socrates
  12. set in 399 BCEabout 3 years later Socrates on what makes things beautiful More from Socrates
  13. set in 399 BCEabout 3 years later Socrates on knowing that he does not know More from Socrates

Just before and after

The text around the quote, word for word from the same translation.

Show the passageHide the passage

For in truth I feel my soul and my tongue quite benumbed, and I am at a loss what answer to give you. And yet on countless occasions I have made abundant speeches on virtue to various people—and very good speeches they were, so I thought—but now I cannot say one word as to what it is. You are well advised, I consider, in not voyaging or taking a trip away from home; for if you went on like this as a stranger in any other city you would very likely be taken up for a wizard. Soc. You are a rogue, Meno, and had almost deceived me. Men. How is that, Socrates? Soc. I perceive your aim in thus comparing me. Men. What was it? Soc. That I might compare you in return. One thing I know about all handsome people is this—they delight in being compared to something. They do well over it, since fine features, I suppose, must have fine similes. But I am not for playing your game.

The quote: As for me, if the torpedo is torpid itself while causing others to be torpid, I am like it, but not otherwise. For it is not from any sureness in myself that I cause others to doubt: it is from being in more doubt than anyone else that I cause doubt in others.

So now, for my part, I have no idea what virtue is, whilst you, though perhaps you may have known before you came in touch with me, are now as good as ignorant of it also. But none the less I am willing to join you in examining it and inquiring into its nature. Men. Why, on what lines will you look, Socrates, for a thing of whose nature you know nothing at all? Pray, what sort of thing, amongst those that you know not, will you treat us to as the object of your search? Or even supposing, at the best, that you hit upon it, how will you know it is the thing you did not know? Soc.

Plato, Meno 80a–dTranslated by W. R. M. Lamb (1924)Read the full passage (opens scaife.perseus.org)

When, and whose words

Date
c. 402 BCE. Usually set shortly before Meno left on Cyrus' expedition of 401 BCE; the dialogue gives no year.
Whose words
As Plato tells it.
How this post was checked
  • The plain-words line was read against the quote alone by a second, independent pass, which found it adds no claim the quote does not make (2026-10-03).
  • Each claim in the summary was checked by an independent pass against only the material it cites.
  • The quote itself is checked by the build: word for word, once, at the cited section of the stored translation.

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