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Aspasia's speech on how a state shapes men

c. 386 BCE, Athens. As Plato tells it, through Socrates; many read the Menexenus as satire.

Where and when

c. 386 BCEAthens

about 2,411 years ago

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Aspasia

, AthensAs Plato tells it, through Socrates; many read the Menexenus as satire

In plain words, ours

A country shapes its people: a good one raises good people, a bad one raises bad people.

For a polity is a thing which nurtures men, good men when it is noble, bad men when it is base.

Plato, Menexenus 238cTranslated by R. G. Bury (1929)Read the full passage (Plato, Menexenus 238c, opens scaife.perseus.org)

What was going on, our summary

In Plato's Menexenus, which many read as satire, Socrates gives a speech he credits to Aspasia, honoring Athenians who have fallen. It praises the land and the ancestors, and calls Athens' government an aristocracy backed by the people.

Checked claim by claim against: the passage around the quote.

Related moments

In time order, with this one in its place. Each says why it is here.

  1. set in 406 BCEabout 20 years earlier Xenophon on the Arginusae generals Also about democracy and government
  2. 403 BCEabout 17 years earlier Democracy returns to Athens, with an amnesty Also about democracy and government
  3. c. 387 BCE1 year earlier Plato starts teaching at the Academy Also in Athens
  4. c. 386 BCEThis momentAspasia's speech on how a state shapes men
  5. c. 386 BCEAbout the same year Aspasia's speech on how Athens is ruled Same passageMore from Aspasia
  6. c. 386 BCEAbout the same year Aspasia's speech on grieving too much More from Aspasia
  7. c. 386 BCEAbout the same year Aspasia's speech on wealth and cowardice More from Aspasia
  8. c. 386 BCEAbout the same year Socrates on Aspasia's funeral speech Same passageAlso in Athens
  9. c. 399–354 BCEDuring it Xenophon on Socrates' death Also in Athens

Just before and after

The text around the quote, word for word from the same translation.

Show the passageHide the passage

But this her produce of grain she did not begrudge to the rest of men, but dispensed it to them also. And after it she brought to birth for her children the olive, sore labor’s balm. And when she had nurtured and reared them up to man’s estate, she introduced gods to be their governors and tutors; the names of whom it behoves us to pass over in this discourse, since we know them; and they set in order our mode of life, not only in respect of daily business, by instructing us before all others in the arts, but also in respect of the guardianship of our country, by teaching us how to acquire and handle arms. Such being the manner of their birth and of their education, the ancestors of these men framed for themselves and lived under a civic polity which it is right for us briefly to describe.

The quote: For a polity is a thing which nurtures men, good men when it is noble, bad men when it is base.

It is necessary, then, to demonstrate that the polity wherein our forefathers were nurtured was a noble one, such as caused goodness not only in them but also in their descendants of the present age, amongst whom we number these men who are fallen. For it is the same polity which existed then and exists now, under which polity we are living now and have been living ever since that age with hardly a break. One man calls it democracy, another man, according to his fancy, gives it some other name; but it is, in very truth, an aristocracy backed by popular approbation.

Plato, Menexenus 238a–dTranslated by R. G. Bury (1929)Read the full passage (opens scaife.perseus.org)

When, and whose words

Date
c. 386 BCE. The Menexenus speech covers events down to the King's Peace (387/386 BCE), years after Socrates died in 399, so the scene is anachronistic; Plato wrote it c. 386–380 BCE.
Whose words
As Plato tells it, through Socrates; many read the Menexenus as satire. Who was Aspasia?
How this post was checked
  • The plain-words line was read against the quote alone by a second, independent pass, which found it adds no claim the quote does not make (2026-10-03).
  • Each claim in the summary was checked by an independent pass against only the material it cites.
  • The quote itself is checked by the build: word for word, once, at the cited section of the stored translation.

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