416 BCEMelos
2,441 years ago
A place in this history (Pleiades 570475). 3 posts and events, oldest first.
, Melos
The neutral island of Melos refuses to join Athens. After a siege it surrenders; the Athenians kill the men and sell the women and children as slaves.
the Melians surrendered at discretion to the Athenians, who put to death all the grown men whom they took, and sold the women and children for slaves
Background: Siege of Melos, Wikipedia (opens en.wikipedia.org)
Athenian envoys to Melos on the strong and weak
What was going on: As Thucydides writes it, Athenian envoys are talking with the people of Melos, a neutral island that refuses to join Athens, in 416 BCE. The Athenians say they will skip fine speeches about their right to an empire. After a siege, Athens killed Melos' men and enslaved the women and children.
Why it matters: The Melian dialogue is regarded as a seminal text of international relations theory, and this line in particular is taken as an appeal to political power as opposed to justice.
In the real world, fairness only comes up between equals in power. Otherwise the strong do what they can and the weak put up with what they must.
…since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
The Athenian envoys to Melos on power
What was going on: In 416 BCE an Athenian force came to Melos, a neutral island that refused to join Athens. In the talks Thucydides writes up, the Melians say the gods will favor them as just men and the Spartans will help; here the Athenian envoys reply.
Why it matters: The Melian dialogue describes one of the early instances of power politics, and it is taught as arguing that the only rational approach is based on power and advantage.
Gods, we think, and people, we know, rule wherever they can. We didn't invent that rule, we just use it, and you would too in our place.
Of the gods we believe, and of men we know, that by a necessary law of their nature they rule wherever they can. And it is not as if we were the first to make this law, or to act upon it when made: we found it existing before us, and shall leave it to exist for ever after us; all we do is to make use of it, knowing that you and everybody else, having the same power as we have, would do the same as we do.
